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Hello guys. I hate asking such a newb question but I need a little clarification on this topic. Ive searched the forums and read a lot but im still not quite understanding. I have my cobra exhaust on now and my next project is an intake. I know now ill be needing a tuner of some sort. How does this work..are most people in favor of the cobra power pro auto tuner? Or power commander thingy. It seems from reading the threads that some of you have installed both is that right? Last but not least Whats the deal with getting the bike dyno'ed what are the pros to that.
 

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This subject has been beat to death, but will always be of concern for sure. Just about every tuner available has been a success for those who bought them. Just have to make a choice somehow. Even the Dyno tune shares same topic diversity. I have the Cobra Autotune and I of course think it's the best IMO. Probaly did not help you a whole lot, but gave you my honest opinion. Take Care!
 

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This subject has been beat to death, but will always be of concern for sure. Just about every tuner available has been a success for those who bought them. Just have to make a choice somehow. Even the Dyno tune shares same topic diversity. I have the Cobra Autotune and I of course think it's the best IMO. Probaly did not help you a whole lot, but gave you my honest opinion. Take Care!
Im sorry, I think perhaps I worded the question incorrect. I didint want to question to be a "is this better that that" type a question. Im literally trying to understand what is a power commander and what is an auto tuner. Are they the same thing? Why are people using a power commander and auto tuner together? Basically after purchasing my intake what are my options
 

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Power commander you can setup for your custom preferences, auto-tuner in theory sets up the bike for what Cobra considers the perfect air-fuel mixture, there are members very happy with the power commander and others like me that are very happy with the auto tuner and then there are those very unhappy with both
 

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For simplicity sake I went with the auto-tuner. I just like the idea of "plug n play" when it come to adding after market components. Who knows which product is best but I have no buyer's remorse after going with the auto-tuner one year ago this month. Good luck. I don't think you can go wrong with either product.
 

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Ahh ok. So is dyno tuning the bike a must after the install of either? Why do people dyno?
Dyno tuning is recommended with the addition of a user adjustable tuner such as the power commander. While pre-built maps for common add-ons (pipes, air intakes, etc.) are available every motor is different and seat of the pants tuning is sketchy at best. Kind of like one size fits all socks...I'm sure they fit someone somewhere! The Cobra Auto-tuner takes readings from the bikes sensors and adjusts itself as you ride. From what I can glean it samples somewhere around 80 times per second on acceleration and adds fuel until the results diminish and then backs off a bit to the optimize performance. This process starts every time you start the bike, it does not store the info, thereby, in theory compensating for riding conditions. Seems to work pretty well over all within it's limitations. Dyno tuning not needed. My feeling is for the keenest edge a dyno tuned bike with stored maps (IE, power commander or comparable type tuner) would probably run strongest but only under the exact conditions that it was tuned in. Weather, temp, humidity, altitude, fuel would all be variables that would change the tuning. Ok if you own a dyno or are running a race bike, not so much for a daily driver IMHO.
 

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Dyno tuning is recommended with the addition of a user adjustable tuner such as the power commander. While pre-built maps for common add-ons (pipes, air intakes, etc.) are available every motor is different and seat of the pants tuning is sketchy at best. Kind of like one size fits all socks...I'm sure they fit someone somewhere! The Cobra Auto-tuner takes readings from the bikes sensors and adjusts itself as you ride. From what I can glean it samples somewhere around 80 times per second on acceleration and adds fuel until the results diminish and then backs off a bit to the optimize performance. This process starts every time you start the bike, it does not store the info, thereby, in theory compensating for riding conditions. Seems to work pretty well over all within it's limitations. Dyno tuning not needed. My feeling is for the keenest edge a dyno tuned bike with stored maps (IE, power commander or comparable type tuner) would probably run strongest but only under the exact conditions that it was tuned in. Weather, temp, humidity, altitude, fuel would all be variables that would change the tuning. Ok if you own a dyno or are running a race bike, not so much for a daily driver IMHO.
Well said Wayne!
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Perfect thats everything I needed to get a grasp on this. Ill keep it simple and go with the auto tuner. Hopefully I luck out and get a good one. I know from reading the forums there are some with issues.
 

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Just don't get ti wet and you should be fine.
 

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The cheaper one - around $250 range is just a closed loop system, with pots that you have to adjust yourself to "dial" it in.

the $550 range one is the Auto Tuner - the one that supposed to calculate setting up to 80 times / sec. just a plug and play - (well with the 3rd gen models there is a single pot "dial" to adjust for richness/leaness when at cruising(because the tuner actually only activates / tunes when accelerating) - that's extensively discussed in another PowrPro Tuner thread).
http://www.yamahastarstryker.com/21...00-power-pro-auto-tuner-issues-thread-20.html
 

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I've seen new Cobra Autotuners on ebay for 437.95
 

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There are many pros and cons of both the cobra and the power commander.

Is anyone familiar with Dobeck Performance who makes fuel tuners? (EJK, TFI, they just released a new autotuner called the AFR+) The owner of this company founded Dynojet and invented the dynomometer. the tuners are affordable, easy to use, have on the fly tuning, do not require a dyno or a computer to tune. Dobeck Performance also manufactures controllers for over 80 private labels. you have probably seen the tuners with intake & exhaust kits, in turbo kits and other big labels like Wiseco & FMF.

I have researched the controllers on the market and heres what I'm finding.

The Cobra autotunes to 12.5 AFR only during acceleration. 12.5 AFR is a good AFR value to target but is not ideal for all situations. The CVT tuning at 80x per second is just a gimic with the power pro. Most processors inside any controller are taking readings at 80x per second.
In conclusion, the power pro is a good tuner, but you are stuck with 12.5 AFR only autotuning during acceleration.
Dyno time with the Power pro wont do any good because you cannot change the 12.5 AFR it targets.

The power commander is your most expensive option, but has been the most popular because Dynojet was the first company to develop tuners. They also spend a lot on marketing and are well branded.(hence their popularity)
The power commander w/ autotune is almost $900. This does not truly auto-tune. Its what is called automapping. The PC5 with autotune takes readings from your motor using the wideband O2 sensor and makes a new map for your bike. Once again the auto-tuner only tunes to 13.3 AFR which is a good AFR value to target but not in all situations and rpm ranges.
Dyno time is expensive and your tune up is only as good as the person tuning it. If you do not have the autotune on your power commander you will have to spend money on dynotime, or download one of the maps that are out there. Once again, you are stuck with a map until you download a new one or spend more money on dynotime. Your map would need to be changed anytime you put any mods on it or are in different climates/elevation.
In conclusion, Power commanders are expensive to begin with, will continue to be expensive with dyno time, and are not easy to tune because you have to download maps or have new maps made anytime you want to change something. People will continue to tell you to buy the power commander because thats all they know and its a popular tuner

Dobeck Performance tuners can be tuned on the fly, are about half the cost, and will give your bike a good tune up with the preprogrammed map straight out of the box.
Their new AFR+ autotuner uses an AFR gauge and wideband O2 sensor to autotune to any AFR value from 9.5 -16.5 AFR
You can set up your controller to target any AFR value for both the acceleration and full throttle fuel ranges (12.5 is good for full throttle, 13.3 is good for acceleration, going leaner can get you better gas mileage if its something you want. Each engine will run optimally with a different AFR value. engines with cams tend to like richer AFR values
The AFR gauge lets you know how your bike is running at all times. It makes it easy to find flat spots, lean/rich spots, and diagnose other issues like exhaust leaks etc.
It doesn't require dyno time and can be tuned on the fly for whatever driving style your feeling. If you want to race, Target 12.5 AFR to go gear for gear against the bike in the lane next to you, or get good gas mileage and target 14.5 AFR while cruising on the highway to save on gas.

Those are my findings after researching fuel controllers. If I am wrong on anything I stated, please clarify. I will be happy to answer any other questions.
 
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