[toby]

The answer is, absolutely
Went for a ride today by myself testing out the new Michelin C IIs.
Hit some hard dips in turns and felt it bottom out.
With inspection of the tire and under side of the fender my conclusion for where it rubbed is the tail light mount as it sticks a 1/2 inch or so lower than the fender. On further inspection of the tire I noticed marks on the tire similar to what the rub tabs would have left but I ground those off. They were closer together at the exact places the bolts protrude through the fender that mount the seat hardware. So I'm not sure how many times I rubed the tail light mount but felt the bolts hit.

I'm 140 lbs, pre-load set at #2, PCS lowering links set at the 1" drop and a Michelin Commander II 240/40/18. However the brands do not mater as I rubbed the Metzler and the Dunlop too.

Keep in mind that I ride more extreme road conditions than any cruiser rider will see in a lifetime and if they did see they would turn around and go the other way. So most of you may never come across the conditions that it would take to get it to rub but be aware.

So the answer to the question so often asked, is it possible to bottom out with a 240 tire lowered 1 inch solo riding is, YES:nod::nod::nod:.
I believe it would also be possible with all stock setup with a 240 tire under the right conditions.:wink:

Any question?

 

[11Stryker]

The Avon 240 is smaller diameter and the only one you have not tried. Maybe ok with that 240.

 

[11Stryker]

Hey Toby, from pics of your bike that you posted- Looks like your bike is lowered much more than the 1". Is it possible that with some of the bumps you have it that the lowering links have moved to the 2-1/4" slots? Just a thought. I have the Avon 250 and before I put the progressive 1" lowering shock on, I had the L&M 1.5" lowering spring. When riding 2 up Wife and I hit some hard potholes on a couple occasions and I could feel the stock shock bottom out, but the tire never hit anything. Another thing to consider is that with the lowering links- you are changing the suspension geometry which is different than lowering with the shock assembly.

 

[toby]

Hey Toby, from pics of your bike that you posted- Looks like your bike is lowered much more than the 1". Is it possible that with some of the bumps you have it that the lowering links have moved to the 2-1/4" slots? Just a thought. I have the Avon 250 and before I put the progressive 1" lowering shock on, I had the L&M 1.5" lowering spring. When riding 2 up Wife and I hit some hard potholes on a couple occasions and I could feel the stock shock bottom out, but the tire never hit anything. Another thing to consider is that with the lowering links- you are changing the suspension geometry which is different than lowering with the shock assembly.

11, No it's on the one inch slot and you can really tell the difference between the two positions. Look wise and how low you feel when you set on it. If it started slipping from slot to slot I'm pretty sure that would be quite noticeable. That's actually a scary thought:frown:.

The geometry? I think you might have that backwards or doesn't change either way. With exception of changing the distance of travel which would only happen by changing the shock or spring, changing just the links doesn't change the amount of travel. The geometry remains constant to the axle and pivot point on the swing arm. No matter what size tire you put on, shock or links, the axle still moves up and down in the exact same path because it's governed by the fixed pivot points of the swing arms and their length to the axle.. I think tightening the pre-load raises it up slightly but still doesn't affect the amount of travel in the shock.
My guess is by using a shorter shock or spring to lower it you also shorten the amount of travel, this is why you bottomed out the shock before the tire. .
If you just bottom out on the tail light mount you will not see anything on the tire but you can see where it rubbed on the mount? If you rubbed hard for a bit you would see rubber and plastic shavings at the edge of the mount and of course rub marks on the flat part.

 

[11Stryker]

You could be right Toby, I remember very early in near the Start of this forum- L&M and one of the Raider Members informing us of the difference of the lowering Spring/Shock and Lowering links and talking about the difference in suspension geometry. Of course it is almost impossible to find any of those discussions since the forum change. I will try to find it.

 

[11Stryker]

Found it Toby- Remember when L&M and PCS got into a pi$$ing match over this exact topic and the thread was closed to any additional posts, but we can still read them. Starts on page 5 and gets heated on page 6 of this thread http://www.yamahastarstryker.com/18-mods-accessories/788-pcs-lowering-connectors-6.html

 

[11Stryker]

L&M explains how they did this with solid shock at correct length with and without dog bones and also with their spring. PCS did not like them showing us their results though.

 

[11Stryker]

The PCS links are going to be the most popular way to lower because of cost, but I do believe that the Progressive Lowering shock is the way to safely go and also increase ride comfort. 465.00 compared to 50.00- Yes I understand!

 

[11Stryker]

I see Barons recommends using a heavier spring with their lowering dogbones set at the 2" setting. http://www.phatperformanceparts.com/Barons_Rear_Suspension_Lowering_Kit_V_Star_1100_p/ba-7540-00.htm

 

[toby]

Interesting thread. So the conclusion is, as I stated, the 240 tire will rub before the stock shock and spring bottoms out.. Granted the different brands very in "over all diameter" which can be as much as, I believe, 1/2" in clearance or maybe more. Which may be just enough for clearance for the Avon for example, being the smallest, this without doing the math is uncertain.
Changing the links, no matter what brand or setting you have this does not effect the amount of travel.
Example, if you have 4.0" of travel before the shock bottoms out and 4.25" clearance from tire to point of rub to start with, then put a tire on that is .5" more in height, then the tire will bottom out at 3.75", that's .25" before the shock.
If you put enough load/weight on the bike to make it travel 3.0" hitting a dip at x speed you wont bottom the tire out, but if you lower it 1" you now only have 2.75" of clearance. If you hit the same dip with the same weight at the same speed, the amount of travel will be the same 3.0" and the tire will rub at 2.75". Now if the Avon was .28" smaller in diameter than the hypothetical tire in the figures I used, it would not rub under those exact conditions because it left .03".

After further inspection of my tire etc. I'm don't think it's able to hit the end of the bolts the mount the seat hardware because they don't extend past the fender. It has to be something on the tail light mount or the spots where I ground the rub tabs off, might have left a bur or two. I need to look closer.
And again you guys, it takes some extreme conditions to get it to rub riding solo..
I may go one more notch, from #2 to#3 on the pre-load, but wont go any more because that's just too stiff for me on these roads.

 

[toby]

Me having the extreme conditions to worry about I should change the shock and/or spring but I'm not to concerned because it can be avoided if your careful, also I can't deal with too stiff of suspension due to my neck surgery and just overall being old lol.
To correct what either L&M or PCS said, don't remember which one, but the statement that it will only rub at speed is not true, it will rub at 10 miles per hr just the same under the right conditions.:wink:

 

[11Stryker]

Interesting thread. So the conclusion is, as I stated, the 240 tire will rub before the stock shock and spring bottoms out.

With dogbones installed of course!:thumb:

 

[toby]

With dogbones installed of course!:thumb:

Pretty sure if it will rub with aftermarket bones it will rub with stock bones too, just need more weight and deeper dip.