Little update according to my local dealer it's the intake manifold boots have cracks in the rubber causing air to get stucked in and the sensor saying it needs more fuel... We'll see what happens when I get it back.
Smoke from exhaust
As of yesterday I put on 250 easy miles and throughout the day my cousin behind me said when I get on the throttle it blows smoke from the exhaust pipe. Smells like un burnt fuel so I'm guessing I'm running rich but why all of a sudden now? 2400miles on the bike. I also noticed its been back firing more and more. I have a cobra slip on exhaust but have had that on since new. Any ideas anyone???
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Did they say if it's a common problem on the Stryker or possibly caused by too much Jack Daniels?
Didn't you try running it with the o2 unplugged? If you did, then the diagnosis they gave you can't be right.
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Yes I did. But explain please
Ran worse with o2 unplugged
Was it still smoking with the O2 sensor unplugged?Ran worse with o2 unplugged
Is there another sensor that measures fuel ? I was thinking if the o2 was unplugged, how was the computer adding more fuel?
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BOOLSHOTIs there another sensor that measures fuel ? I was thinking if the o2 was unplugged, how was the computer adding more fuel?
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That's the million dollar question and that's where the answer lies, and that's why nobody can get it right by trial and error and smelling the exaust and test running it unplugging this or that, because the variables are constantly changing. There are many sensors involved in the fuel processing information procedure in the entire EFI system. The 02 sends the final emissions readings, but you have the throttle position senor, load sensor, ambient air temp sensor, barometric pressure sensor, internal engine temp sensor, altitude sensor , ignition timing sensor, gear sensor, RPM sensor, coolant temp sensor etc. etc. Probably missed some but all these work hand and hand in sending ever changing info to the ECM(Engine Control Module) also know as the ECU, the brain that reads ALL this info and makes multiple changes every second to air fuel mixture.
The only guys that have ever got it perfectly tuned and never had a single problem with ANY aftermarket fuel possessor are the ones that have had their system professionally tested and individually mapped specific to their bike.
No disrespect intended, but I can't understand why anyone would think that they could do the work that was professionally engineered and designed to be done by a computer. I guess they just don't understand what all is involved here and I don't know why the companies selling these products don't tell them.
I did extensive research on the subject and came to the decision I wont do a stage 1 power up grade until I can afford all three mods, pipes, intake and fuel possessor plus have it professionally mapped.
I guess I should have posted this on one or all of the fuel possessor threads.
Thank you Toby. couldn't have put it better!
BOOLSHOT
That's the million dollar question and that's where the answer lies, and that's why nobody can get it right by trial and error and smelling the exaust and test running it unplugging this or that, because the variables are constantly changing. There are many sensors involved in the fuel processing information procedure in the entire EFI system. The 02 sends the final emissions readings, but you have the throttle position senor, load sensor, ambient air temp sensor, barometric pressure sensor, internal engine temp sensor, altitude sensor , ignition timing sensor, gear sensor, RPM sensor, coolant temp sensor etc. etc. Probably missed some but all these work hand and hand in sending ever changing info to the ECM(Engine Control Module) also know as the ECU, the brain that reads ALL this info and makes multiple changes every second to air fuel mixture.
The only guys that have ever got it perfectly tuned and never had a single problem with ANY aftermarket fuel possessor are the ones that have had their system professionally tested and individually mapped specific to their bike.
No disrespect intended, but I can't understand why anyone would think that they could do the work that was professionally engineered and designed to be done by a computer. I guess they just don't understand what all is involved here and I don't know why the companies selling these products don't tell them.
I did extensive research on the subject and came to the decision I wont do a stage 1 power up grade until I can afford all three mods, pipes, intake and fuel possessor plus have it professionally mapped.
I guess I should have posted this on one or all of the fuel possessor threads.
I guess this goes back to what my Yamaha rep. said about switching out the pulley.BOOLSHOT
That's the million dollar question and that's where the answer lies, and that's why nobody can get it right by trial and error and smelling the exaust and test running it unplugging this or that, because the variables are constantly changing. There are many sensors involved in the fuel processing information procedure in the entire EFI system. The 02 sends the final emissions readings, but you have the throttle position senor, load sensor, ambient air temp sensor, barometric pressure sensor, internal engine temp sensor, altitude sensor , ignition timing sensor, gear sensor, RPM sensor, coolant temp sensor etc. etc. Probably missed some but all these work hand and hand in sending ever changing info to the ECM(Engine Control Module) also know as the ECU, the brain that reads ALL this info and makes multiple changes every second to air fuel mixture.
The only guys that have ever got it perfectly tuned and never had a single problem with ANY aftermarket fuel possessor are the ones that have had their system professionally tested and individually mapped specific to their bike.
No disrespect intended, but I can't understand why anyone would think that they could do the work that was professionally engineered and designed to be done by a computer. I guess they just don't understand what all is involved here and I don't know why the companies selling these products don't tell them.
I did extensive research on the subject and came to the decision I wont do a stage 1 power up grade until I can afford all three mods, pipes, intake and fuel possessor plus have it professionally mapped.
I guess I should have posted this on one or all of the fuel possessor threads.
what did he say? (i must've missed that post)I guess this goes back to what my Yamaha rep. said about switching out the pulley.
Joe, I can't & won't comment on how things perform on modified units. It's senseless to think any of these people have enough engineering knowledge to post anything.what did he say? (i must've missed that post)
There is not a week that goes by that I don't fix an ongoing issue with a bike, by getting it converted back to STOCK.
The bike was designed to NOT be chugged along - that's not the customer/bike target. This bike was designed to be ridden aggressively and kept in the higher rpm range, spending a minimum amount of time in first or second. The 13 STD & Tour has the personality it seems these riders would be better suited with. With aggressive styling come aggressive mapping and timing.
I've been working on cars since I was a kid, both at home and in dealerships, and I do agree with what you said..to a point. There are a lot of factors that go into the final injector signal. The most critical,and dynamic (and that everyone plays with) is the O2 sensor(s), the MAF sensor, and the IAT sensor. All the other ones are relatively static. The throttle position sensor tells the ECU "I am at position "a", therefore I need "n" amount of fuel. Same with crank position, coolant temp sensor..etc. But the O2 sensor will hold reign over all the other ones, because that is the final one in the closed loop system. So regardless what the other sensors send to the ECU, if the O2 sensor thinks it's running too lean (or rich) it will tell the ECU to lengthen or shorten the injector pulse and the timing of the pulse. People either put a resistor in line with the IAT to which tells the ECU it's colder outside than it really is (and therefore the incoming air is denser) and needs to add fuel, or a resistor to the O2 which as everyone knows, tells the ECU it's running too lean and needs more fuel.I guess this goes back to what my Yamaha rep. said about switching out the pulley.
The tuners everyone puts on (myself included) compensate for larger amount of air coming through the intake. Stock ECU's can usually compensate satisfactorily up to a point. Aftermarket intakes and exhaust allow for more air intake/outflow, which "MAY" end up overwhelming the ECU, and cannot process a signal to compensate enough (depending on what you did, the stock ECU may be okay..you don't ALWAYS have to buy a tuner). All programming in an ECU is just a set of math functions, and if the results of the input do not fall within the criteria of a function set, the ECU will default to a parameter that will be less likely to hurt the engine (which is usually RUN RICH). The problem when this happens is premature fouling of plugs and O2 sensors due to excessive carbon build up...which then causes a crappy running engine in the long run (and if you have a catalytic converter, will also eventually plug it up).
So..my two cents for all the mod problems people have. Do your intake and exhaust mods first. If you have a significant problem compared to running stock, then spend the money on a tuner. When you unplug the O2 sensor or put in a resistor, you're making the engine run rich all the time, which is fine as long as you are aware of the long term effects as above. And when you do a mod...yes, you are changing what and how the bike was engineered to perform. So please do not ask for perfection from your mod.
It's like putting a radical camshaft in an engine, and then complaining because it doesn't idle nice....ain't gonna happen.
Sorry about the soapbox stance.
Unfortunately, some of us like the looks and basic performance of the bike, but aren't able to go around town at 50 mph in third gear all the time...so we modJoe, I can't & won't comment on how things perform on modified units. It's senseless to think any of these people have enough engineering knowledge to post anything.
There is not a week that goes by that I don't fix an ongoing issue with a bike, by getting it converted back to STOCK.
The bike was designed to NOT be chugged along - that's not the customer/bike target. This bike was designed to be ridden aggressively and kept in the higher rpm range, spending a minimum amount of time in first or second. The 13 STD & Tour has the personality it seems these riders would be better suited with. With aggressive styling come aggressive mapping and timing.
))))) Unless you live where there are long open roads, and no cops, it's hard to ride aggressively all the time.
Very well said Stryker2012- I think that Yami rep probably has his finger stuck somewhere and therefore can't relate to the general public. Just my 1-1/2 sense LOL
The problem with this theory is once you add a piggy-backed possessor to the ECU the 02 is no longer the final operational information sent to the ECU, it's the fuel possessor, which sends the info that fools the ECU into changing the A/F mix..I've been working on cars since I was a kid, both at home and in dealerships, and I do agree with what you said..to a point. There are a lot of factors that go into the final injector signal. The most critical,and dynamic (and that everyone plays with) is the O2 sensor(s), the MAF sensor, and the IAT sensor. All the other ones are relatively static. The throttle position sensor tells the ECU "I am at position "a", therefore I need "n" amount of fuel. Same with crank position, coolant temp sensor..etc. But the O2 sensor will hold reign over all the other ones, because that is the final one in the closed loop system. So regardless what the other sensors send to the ECU, if the O2 sensor thinks it's running too lean (or rich) it will tell the ECU to lengthen or shorten the injector pulse and the timing of the pulse. People either put a resistor in line with the IAT to which tells the ECU it's colder outside than it really is (and therefore the incoming air is denser) and needs to add fuel, or a resistor to the O2 which as everyone knows, tells the ECU it's running too lean and needs more fuel.
The tuners everyone puts on (myself included) compensate for larger amount of air coming through the intake. Stock ECU's can usually compensate satisfactorily up to a point. Aftermarket intakes and exhaust allow for more air intake/outflow, which "MAY" end up overwhelming the ECU, and cannot process a signal to compensate enough (depending on what you did, the stock ECU may be okay..you don't ALWAYS have to buy a tuner). All programming in an ECU is just a set of math functions, and if the results of the input do not fall within the criteria of a function set, the ECU will default to a parameter that will be less likely to hurt the engine (which is usually RUN RICH). The problem when this happens is premature fouling of plugs and O2 sensors due to excessive carbon build up...which then causes a crappy running engine in the long run (and if you have a catalytic converter, will also eventually plug it up).
So..my two cents for all the mod problems people have. Do your intake and exhaust mods first. If you have a significant problem compared to running stock, then spend the money on a tuner. When you unplug the O2 sensor or put in a resistor, you're making the engine run rich all the time, which is fine as long as you are aware of the long term effects as above. And when you do a mod...yes, you are changing what and how the bike was engineered to perform. So please do not ask for perfection from your mod.
It's like putting a radical camshaft in an engine, and then complaining because it doesn't idle nice....ain't gonna happen.
Sorry about the soapbox stance.
If I'm correct the aftermarket fuel possessor will send the same info from it's preset maps to the ECU no matter what you do to the 02. Not sure if the 02 still goes directly to the piggy-backed unit or to the ECU but don't think it matters much.
With the G-man Bully, I unplugged the O2 sensor. They said that if you leave it plugged in, they will basically be fighting each other.The problem with this theory is once you add a piggy-backed possessor to the ECU the 02 is no longer the final operational information sent to the ECU, it's the fuel possessor, which sends the info that fools the ECU into changing the A/F mix..
If I'm correct the aftermarket fuel possessor will send the same info from it's preset maps to the ECU no matter what you do to the 02. Not sure if the 02 still goes directly to the piggy-backed unit or to the ECU but don't think it matters much.
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Yes, you are correct if you're using a fuel processor with preset maps (like the Fi200r). I've read posts where people are aware maps are for specific environments. I guess I was addressing more for the auto-tuner. Without the auto tuner, If the intake/exhaust upgrade flows more air, in the end of the process, the O2 sensor sends a signal that it is running too lean, but the ECU is unable to compensate, because the algorithm is programmed for a stock setup. Once the auto tuner is plugged into the system, it uses the ECU for info for acceleration measurements from MAP/MAF/IAT crank position, etc. and from the O2 sensor. but now when the O2 see's it's running , it's algorithms allow for changes to injection pulse that were beyond the ECU's capability. If you could find someone who was capable of reprogramming/flashing the ECU, it would do the same thing. So when someone unplugs the O2 sensor, the engine is getting whatever the default A/F ratio setting for "run rich". What I don't know is if it's the default from the auto-tuner, or from the ECU. If it's the ECU, then might as well toss the auto-tuner. Maybe someone can try that and see if there's a difference????The problem with this theory is once you add a piggy-backed possessor to the ECU the 02 is no longer the final operational information sent to the ECU, it's the fuel possessor, which sends the info that fools the ECU into changing the A/F mix..
If I'm correct the aftermarket fuel possessor will send the same info from it's preset maps to the ECU no matter what you do to the 02. Not sure if the 02 still goes directly to the piggy-backed unit or to the ECU but don't think it matters much.
So about the smoke in the exhaust... Lol I can only do what the dealer says since no one on the thread seem to getting anywhere. I appreciate the effort it's not a easy problem I'm having.
G
It was my understanding that, with the Cobra CVT, the only time the o2 sensor came into play was while the engine was in a steady state cruise mode - any other time the Cobra unit would be modifying the signal sent to the ECU (if necessary, of course).Yes, you are correct if you're using a fuel processor with preset maps (like the Fi200r). I've read posts where people are aware maps are for specific environments. I guess I was addressing more for the auto-tuner. Without the auto tuner, If the intake/exhaust upgrade flows more air, in the end of the process, the O2 sensor sends a signal that it is running too lean, but the ECU is unable to compensate, because the algorithm is programmed for a stock setup. Once the auto tuner is plugged into the system, in a sense it bypasses the ECU for feedback from the O2 sensor. All the other sensors still do their job, but now when the O2 see's it's running lean from the mods, it's algorithms allow for changes to injection pulse that were beyond the ECU's capability. If you could find someone who was capable of reprogramming/flashing the ECU, it would do the same thing. So when someone unplugs the O2 sensor, the engine is getting whatever the default A/F ratio setting for "run rich". What I don't know is if it's the default from the auto-tuner, or from the ECU. If it's the ECU, then might as well toss the auto-tuner. Maybe someone can try that and see if there's a difference????
Certainly wait to see what the outcome of the dealer's efforts are first...So about the smoke in the exhaust... Lol I can only do what the dealer says since no one on the thread seem to getting anywhere. I appreciate the effort it's not a easy problem I'm having.
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